Nonprofit financial management has become one of the most important challenges facing nonprofit leaders today. Economic uncertainty, changing donor priorities, and shifting government funding have made financial strategy more critical than ever.
In this episode of the Nonprofit MBA Podcast, Stephen Halasnik, from Financing Solutions (a leading provider of lines of credit for nonprofits), speaks with Nick Jain, co-founder of Eagle Rock CFO Services, about how nonprofit financial management can improve through stronger budgeting, better bookkeeping, operational discipline, and measurable outcomes.
Below is a summary of their conversation, followed by the full transcript of the podcast.
Summary
Episode Highlights
• Why nonprofit financial management is becoming more important in uncertain economic times
• The most common financial mistake smaller nonprofits make
• How nonprofit leaders can use better bookkeeping and financial analysis
• Why budgeting should include multiple funding scenarios
• How organizations can balance mission goals with financial discipline
A Sector Older Than Politics
In an era of political shifts, economic whiplash, and tightening donor priorities, America’s nonprofits find themselves navigating a new and unsettled terrain. For decades, the sector has been a quiet giant—employing roughly one in five American workers before 2025, powering food banks, religious institutions, arts organizations, veterans’ groups, and thousands of other mission-driven enterprises.
But what happens when funding priorities change? When donors redirect their giving? When government support ebbs in one region and expands in another?
On a recent episode of the Nonprofit MBA Podcast, Stephen Halasnik, co-founder of Financing Solutions (a leading provider of nonprofit lines of credit), sat down with Nick Jain, co-founder of Eagle Rock CFO Services, to explore a question weighing heavily on nonprofit leaders: How can nonprofits manage their finances better—especially in uncertain times?
Their conversation revealed something both sobering and hopeful. The nonprofit sector, Jain argues, is neither fragile nor immune to change. It is enduring—but only if leaders run it with discipline.
Nonprofit Financial Management in Uncertain Times
The political climate may shift, but the need for nonprofits does not.
“In any civilized society,” Jain noted, “there are services that nonprofits provide that matter.” From feeding families to preserving culture, nonprofit work predates modern governments. Across centuries and civilizations, communities have stepped forward to meet needs markets and states could not.
Two forces sustain the sector:
- Passion — People must care deeply about a cause.
- Excess wealth — There must be resources available to allocate toward it.
When belts tighten, donations may slow. When priorities shift, some causes rise while others fall. But history suggests that cycles of contraction are followed by renewal.
The key question is not whether nonprofits will survive. It is whether individual organizations are structured well enough to endure volatility.
Nonprofit Financial Management Starts With Knowing The Numbers
For many smaller nonprofits, the most fundamental issue is not declining donations or political uncertainty. It is bookkeeping.
Jain sees it repeatedly: organizations doing noble work without clean financial records. Transactions go untracked. Donations are loosely documented. Reporting is reactive rather than proactive.
This is not merely an administrative oversight. It is existential.
Accurate accounting serves two purposes:
- Compliance — Nonprofits are legally required to report financial data to regulators and boards.
- Decision-making — Without understanding what happened, leaders cannot intelligently decide what to do next.
In the nonprofit world, passion often outruns process. But without disciplined financial recording, mission-driven enthusiasm can drift into operational confusion.
Beyond “Raise More Money”
When nonprofit leaders think about financial management, they often default to one answer: raise more money.
But Jain challenges that instinct.
Nonprofits, he argues, occupy a “beautiful place” in the ecosystem. They often have access to highly skilled volunteers—consultants, bankers, executives—who are willing to contribute time and expertise free of charge.
The smarter question is not always how to raise more revenue, but how to operate more intelligently.
This includes:
- Leveraging discounted or free technology.
- Structuring contracts with flexibility.
- Monitoring expense overruns.
- Building operational dashboards with measurable goals.
In other words, nonprofits must think less like charities and more like disciplined enterprises.
Budgeting in an Unpredictable World
Are nonprofits overly optimistic in their projections?
Sometimes. But Jain suggests the deeper problem is not optimism—it is assuming the world will remain stable.
Inflation rises. Donor interests shift. Wars break out. Immigration becomes a flashpoint. In one year, donors may prioritize religious institutions; in another, immigration advocacy or veterans’ services.
Budgeting must reflect this reality.
Rather than building a single forecast, nonprofit leaders should engage in scenario modeling. What happens if donations fall 20 percent? What if a major grant disappears? What if funding increases unexpectedly?
Flexibility, not austerity, is the answer.
When Halasnik suggested nonprofits should “run lean and mean” during uncertainty, Jain offered a nuanced counterpoint. Discipline is essential—but excessive conservatism can prevent organizations from seizing opportunities or serving their mission fully.
The goal is not penny-pinching. It is adaptability.
The Payroll Dilemma
In most nonprofits, the largest expense is payroll.
That creates tension.
Staff members are often deeply committed to the mission. They frequently accept lower compensation than their private-sector counterparts. Boards and executive directors feel a powerful loyalty toward them.
But nonprofit leaders have three core obligations:
- The mission.
- The donors.
- The staff.
Balancing these constituencies requires courage.
If financial realities demand workforce adjustments, leaders must act—not out of cold calculation, but out of fiduciary responsibility. Donor funds are entrusted to advance a cause. Protecting that trust is paramount.
Jain is quick to note that layoffs are never easy—whether in for-profit or nonprofit settings. But avoiding difficult decisions can jeopardize the entire organization.
Three Essential Practices
When asked to distill his advice into three practical steps, Jain offered a blueprint any nonprofit could adopt immediately:
- Record Data Properly
If you do not know where money went, you cannot improve performance. Clean books are non-negotiable.
- Leverage Nonprofit Discounts
Technology providers often offer steep discounts—sometimes 90 percent or more—to nonprofits. From collaboration tools to email platforms, organizations that fail to ask are leaving money on the table.
- Bring Private-Sector Expertise Into the Room
Whether on staff, on the board, or as an advisor, someone must understand profit-and-loss management, efficiency, and cost control. Mission passion must be paired with operational rigor.
Encouraging Healthy Dissent
One of the more revealing parts of the conversation concerned dissent.
Organizations often claim they value differing opinions. In reality, few enjoy having a “naysayer” in the room.
But well-run nonprofits, Jain argues, encourage thoughtful disagreement. Strategic advisors and CFOs must sometimes challenge prevailing assumptions.
Without dissent, there is no progress.
Without measurement, there is no accountability.
And without accountability, mission impact erodes.
Measure What Matters
Financial data is only part of the equation.
Nonprofits must also measure operational impact. How many people were fed? How many students were tutored? How many shelters were built?
Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) are not corporate jargon. They are instruments of mission fulfillment.
Did we do better than last year? Did we reach more people? Did outcomes improve?
Every nonprofit should be able to answer those questions clearly and confidently.
The Human Factor
As the episode closed, Halasnik offered a reminder that resonated beyond balance sheets.
Nonprofit leaders are often on the front lines of society’s hardest problems. Burnout is common. Emotional fatigue is real.
Financial discipline matters. But so does personal sustainability.
“You’re no good to your cause,” Halasnik said, “if you’re burnt out.”
Exercise. Coffee with a friend. Meditation. Prayer. Whatever restores clarity and energy must be protected.
In the end, nonprofit finance is not merely about spreadsheets. It is about stewardship—of money, of mission, and of people.
The Enduring Promise
The nonprofit sector has weathered wars, recessions, political upheaval, and cultural transformation. It will weather this moment too.
But resilience is not automatic.
It requires clean data, flexible operations, disciplined leadership, and the humility to measure outcomes honestly.
As Jain suggested, nonprofits should stop thinking of finance as a narrow expense-management function. Finance is strategy. It is foresight. It is the architecture that allows compassion to scale.
In uncertain times, doing good demands doing the math.
And the organizations that master both will not merely survive—they will lead.
Key Takeaways for Effective Nonprofit Financial Management
• Strong nonprofit financial management begins with accurate bookkeeping and reliable financial data.
• Nonprofits should plan for multiple financial scenarios rather than relying on a single optimistic budget.
• Technology discounts and nonprofit pricing can dramatically reduce operating costs.
• Successful organizations combine mission passion with private-sector financial discipline.
• Measuring outcomes through KPIs helps nonprofits demonstrate impact and improve decision-making.
About The Experts
Nick Jain is the co-founder of Eagle Rock CFO Services, where he helps nonprofits unlock hidden cash and make smarter financial decisions. Before launching Eagle Rock, he worked in consulting at McKinsey and in investing at Bain Capital and Greenlight Capital, and has led three companies operationally. Nick graduated from Harvard Business School.
Stephen Halasnik is a Managing Partner at Financing Solutions, which is the largest provider of lines of credit to small nonprofits in 48 states since 2012. Mr. Halasnik has hosted the popular The Nonprofit MBA Podcast since 2018. Stephen writes and oversees content related to nonprofit financing strategies, capital management, and entrepreneurial growth. His insights are grounded in over three decades of direct operational and financial leadership experience.
Frequently Asked Questions About Nonprofit Financial Management
What is nonprofit financial management?
Nonprofit financial management refers to the processes organizations use to track revenue, control expenses, maintain accurate records, and plan for long-term sustainability. Effective financial management ensures donor funds are used responsibly, and the organization can fulfill its mission.
Why is financial discipline important for nonprofits?
Financial discipline allows nonprofits to adapt to changing donor priorities, economic uncertainty, and funding cycles. Organizations that track financial data, plan budgets carefully, and measure outcomes are better positioned to sustain their programs and expand their impact.
What are common financial mistakes nonprofits make?
Common mistakes include poor bookkeeping, unrealistic revenue projections, lack of financial analysis, and failing to measure operational outcomes. Many organizations focus only on raising money instead of building strong financial systems.
How can nonprofits improve financial decision making?
Nonprofits can improve financial decision making by recording financial data accurately, using technology to track performance, involving financial expertise on boards or leadership teams, and monitoring key performance indicators that measure mission impact.
Podcast Transcript
Below is the full transcript of the Nonprofit MBA Podcast episode discussing nonprofit financial management and financial strategy for nonprofit organizations.
00:20.79
Stephen halasnik
Hello everyone, this is Stephen Halasnik. I will be your host for today’s Nonprofit MBA podcast. um And for those of you who who are not familiar with who I am, I am one of the co-founders of Financing Solutions.
00:36.44
Stephen halasnik
And since 2012, we have been the largest provider of small lines of lines of credit to small nonprofits in the United States. And if you’re interested in learning more, please visit our website at NonprofitMBApodcast.com. Of course, when I say more, I mean about the line of credit.
00:54.42
Stephen halasnik
um And today I’m very excited be speaking with ah Nick Jain from Eagle Rock ah CFO. And today we’re going covering how nonprofits can manage their finances better. um A little bit about Nick. He is a co-founder of Eagle Rock CFO Services, where he helps nonprofits unlock hidden cash and make smarter financial decisions. Before launching Eagle Rock, he worked in consulting at McKinsey and investing at Bain Capital and Greenlight Capital. and He has led three companies operationally. Nick graduated from the Harvard Business School.
01:34.78
Stephen halasnik
So Nick, welcome to today’s Nonprofit MBA Podcast.
01:39.86
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Thank you so much for having me, Stephen. Really excited to be here.
01:43.13
Stephen halasnik
So, ah Nick, I’ve asked this of every guest since the new administration came in last year. um are you hearing from what have you heard from your nonprofit clients in regards to how this administration has affected them?
02:03.03
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Look, there’s been a lot of, you know, ah at the risk of, or I’m going to try and avoid getting political here, but obviously this administration has different priorities in terms of what it considers okay versus not okay. There’s obviously been a shift away from, let’s say, DEI-related efforts that’s impacted nonprofits that act in those spaces. Conversely, there’s areas that this administration favors and areas that other nonprofits are, you know, a a little bit more active. So, for example, if you’re nonprofit acting on, you Second Amendment rights, you’re probably better funded in the current environment than you were under the prior administrations.
02:36.25
Stephen halasnik
No, I didn’t think about that. You know, my business partner said something a year ago to me and I’ll run it by you. I just, I don’t know if you have an opinion on it. He said to me, like I said, wow, you know, cause we’ve seen so many nonprofits get defunded.
02:52.31
Stephen halasnik
Right. And it it just, it isn’t just diversity, you know, what veterans, uh, just so many different things. And, um,
03:04.12
Stephen halasnik
he said to me, i said to him, will the sector ever come back to what it was? And cause it used to be, um one out of every five jobs in the United States were nonprofit related.
03:20.66
Stephen halasnik
Um, that was prior to 2025. twenty twenty five Um, so my question is, you know, he said nonprofit, um,
03:33.56
Stephen halasnik
The nonprofit industry will return if people have found that the services that they provide are helping and need to be done. And ah by what’s your thoughts on that?
03:56.15
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
So I think two thoughts, right? One is… in any civilized society, there are services that nonprofits provide that matter to that society, right? Whether they be food banks, whether they be religious, whether they be childhood development, like almost any society since the beginning of time has had people providing services, labor, goods for free for the betterment of that society. So there is a need for this. This existed in every society going, you know, recorded society going back thousands and thousands of years. Number two is practically as we think about kind of now,
04:32.12
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
or just in the modern era, people provide kind of a nonprofit good services funding when two things are true. When there’s something, number one, that they care about, you know, that passion that you may have. I care about math education, for example. I volunteer my time in education there. i have a friend who cares a lot about religious rights. He spends a lot of time and effort money there. um So that’s number one. You have to have, you know, something that you care about as others in individual society. And number two, the society has to have kind of Excess wealth that it can allocate towards those resources towards those efforts. right You have to have money. And right now we’re obviously in a time that people feel a little you know tighter belts, which means a funding dries up in nonprofit, but times of a plenty constantly return you know every every few years. So i wouldn’t be too worried about it from a long term perspective.
05:18.68
Stephen halasnik
Yeah. i mean, I, uh, it’s, what’s interesting is the States that haven’t really, um, stopped providing funding to those nonprofits you mentioned, you know, they, in other words, you know, the homeless, the things that really affect, uh, the society inside of those States, they have not cut that funding.
05:43.29
Stephen halasnik
So, um, So yeah, it’ll be interesting to see because you you you have to think that if if there is a new a party that comes into play next ah in the next voting cycle, um will they reallocate money now to the nonprofits that lost funding?
06:10.74
Stephen halasnik
um And it’s… it’s gonna be interesting to see what happens. I certainly hope they do. i mean i certainly
06:17.11
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
it may It may be different nonprofits, by the way, right? Like, unfortunately, some of their nonprofits may may kind of fade out during the current administration or current environment and may come back in different forms in the future, right?
06:29.98
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Where there’s a need, right? If one food bank goes out of business, ah another one will eventually merge because that, you know, food banks, for example just using them as example, serve a need in our society.
06:40.34
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And that’s kind of what’s really important. Again, want to emphasize this, that nonprofits serve need, whether it be you know feeding people, whether it be preserving arts, whether it be you know promulgating a specific religion, they serve a purpose that our society or at least individuals within our society value.
06:56.95
Stephen halasnik
Yeah, I agree. I mean, don’t don’t and listeners don’t ah don’t, I give a lot of money myself to lots of nonprofits. We, Financing Solution gives 10% of our profits to, ah back to nonprofits. So, you know, we’re a big proponent of it. We’re not just in the business of providing lines of credit. We also believe in,
07:16.41
Stephen halasnik
the sectors ourselves. So, um, so don’t get the wrong idea that, you know, i I want the nonprofits to, to excel because we see internally, we always see that the great work that they’re doing.
07:31.16
Stephen halasnik
So, um, so let’s talk talk a little bit about today’s topic, which is how nonprofits can manage your finances better. And, um, Nick, uh, When you are inside and you know looking at income statements and balance sheets of of nonprofits you know for new clients, what is the first thing that sticks out to you about how they can better manage your finances?
08:00.25
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
so So I think it’s two things and I’ll talk a little bit about the smaller side of nonprofits because I think larger nonprofits usually are a little bit better at this either because they’re legally required to be or because they’re boards of directors.
08:10.87
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um I think the two things i think are kind of common, I commonly see are number one, that no one has actually spent time recording what happened financially. So just like basic bookkeeping, like, Hey, we spent a hundred dollars on this. We got a $5,000 donation from person X that all just needs to be recorded. And it’s important for kind of two reasons. Number one is for compliance, right? Nonprofits are required to record all of this reported to the government as well as to their board of directors. So there’s compliance aspect. But number two is that, okay, knowing what happened is important is an important precursor to making decisions. And that’s the second thing, right? Even for nonprofits that have recorded what happened financially in the past,
08:54.62
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Often no one is looking at you know what to do with that information. That’s kind of sad because nonprofits are in this beautiful place where often they they have access to really, really smart, free labor, either on their boards or members of their community. You have people who are consultants or bankers who are willing or business people who are willing to allocate their time and spend a couple of hours a month saying, okay, Here’s how our finances look and here’s what we need to do about it.
09:18.29
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And the answer is often not as simple as just like raise more money, right? That’s often the first thing nonprofits think about, but like there’s lots of other ways that nonprofits can be run better financially. And like they often have amazing access to resources for people who will do it for free and would charge a lot of money for a for-profit business to provide that same level of insight and analysis.
09:41.34
Stephen halasnik
Yeah, I mean, do you find that smaller nonprofits do a good job with with budgeting?
09:51.78
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
It’s mixed, right? For those that have a budget, I think that yes, they do a pretty good job of budgeting as long as they don’t make like ridiculously optimistic assumptions about donations. um The bigger challenges I said is, well, there’s the recording of it, making kind of future decisions, number two, and…
10:11.70
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And then number three is like making sure not to have expense overruns. One of the, you know, the important things is when you have a budget, you have to stick to it. So it’s not about making the budget. It is, you know, adhering to what you said you would do.
10:22.42
Stephen halasnik
Yeah. I know, I mean, when I asked my lead underwriter on this, we’ve been talking about this subject lately, we were going to write a white paper about it. And ah one of the things that she said was that nonprofits tend to be overly optimistic um about the funds that that are going to be coming in and when they’re going to coming in. um would Would you put some validity behind that?
10:51.90
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
I think some are, but I don’t think it’s a systematic problem. I think rather than optimism, I think some nonprofits fail at understanding that like the world changes.
11:02.26
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
So it is not that they are systematically optimistic about donations, but systematically optimistic about…
11:02.33
Stephen halasnik
Yeah.
11:08.25
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
the state the world will be in, right? The world could be a lot poorer, richer, poorer in 12 months. um And you have to account for those scenarios when making that budgeting, right? ah And ah poverty is just one thing, right? Inflation could rise, there could be a war and all these things affect how people allocate their money, right? Given to, you know, people let’s let’s say use the current world as an example, right? And at the risk of getting political, a lot of people care a lot more about immigration related issues this year.
11:36.59
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
than they did, let’s say, like three, four years ago. So people who may have been allocating money to religious charities are allocating them to immigration-related charities this this year.
11:45.28
Stephen halasnik
Yeah.
11:45.50
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And that is not because the world’s poor, it’s just because priorities change. And I think folks have to be in in the nonprofit sector who are budgeting need to be aware that the world can change in ways that negatively or positively impact them. And they need to include this kind of a scenario a scenario modeling.
12:02.30
Stephen halasnik
So if I’m sitting there running a nonprofit and I’ve been on boards before, um I’m not on any right now, but at the… ah if I hear a comment like that about uncertainty and how unpredictable things are, the first thing that I start thinking of is, okay, well, our predictions are not going to be good.
12:25.08
Stephen halasnik
And the thing that we need to do is really, really, reduce our expenses and really don’t, you know, have our expenses at a point where we just run so thin that, um,
12:41.34
Stephen halasnik
if there’s a big change then in the ah world, so let’s say um that will be okay.
12:54.33
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
sorry Sorry, what was the question you were asking there, Stephen? I didn’t understand. i apologize.
12:57.50
Stephen halasnik
Yeah, well, my question is, is I would then, ah if I i would then advise a nonprofit that I was on, I’d say is we got a really, really just, run our nonprofit very, ah very, really, really watch our expenses.
13:15.03
Stephen halasnik
Like don’t, don’t hire that extra extra person. Don’t ah make sure that we’re running really mean and, and lean so to speak. Is that ah something that you would advise your clients to do too?
13:29.29
Stephen halasnik
Mm-hmm.
13:29.85
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Not really. I’d go a slightly different direction, say, it look, because when you’re conservative, you don’t take, ah you’re unable to take advantage of, you know good opportunities that arise or, you know, even but serve your constituents well the way or your mission well.
13:42.81
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um What I would say is rather than being conservative and preserving every dollar, which by the way, you should run a disciplined operation. That’s true in nonprofit and government in, you know, business, whatever it is, you should always run a disciplined operation, but don’t like, you know, penny pinch every dollar instead I think your operating plan as a nonprofit should be to be able to adjust as the world changes. Right? So let’s let’s use a you know, silly, let’s use a simple example.
14:09.29
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
It’s okay to hire people, but you shouldn’t, you know, set up your contracts where you’re stuck paying for five years if the world changes. right You need to have the ability to both flex your business down if things go or not your business your operations down if things go poorly. But conversely, if things are going well, you should be able to scale yourself up so you fulfill your mission more effectively.
14:32.70
Stephen halasnik
what What is typically the the largest expense in smaller nonprofits?
14:41.94
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Excluding those that are delivering a product like food, for example, it’s to it’s almost always people, right? It is the people who are going out there and serve like delivering goods. It is the the people who are running those afterschool programs.
14:56.82
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um Because yes, there’s some amount of volunteer labor, but volunteer labor tends to be unstructured and you know can volunteer some weekends and not. But for most nonprofits that try and provide a consistent service you know every Friday 3 p.m. or whatever that is, they often need to have paid staff and paid staff you know need to be paid.
15:17.02
Stephen halasnik
Yeah, I mean, i I had a hunch it was payroll, that that was the you know the largest expense. The problem is, is well i mean, would you suggest that one of the things that people consider is is having more temporary staff?
15:36.02
Stephen halasnik
I mean, I know it’s hard to do, but if you have temporary staff, then then the payroll costs can go up in town based on how well the nonprofit is doing.
15:49.34
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
so So, you don’t, they don’t have to be temporary per se, but at will employment, right? As is very common in the private sector, almost every U.S. employee at will where the employer can let them go, you know, 3 p.m. this afternoon.
16:01.27
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um as opposed to, you know, long-term, here’s a three-year contract for work. um Where possible, you know, I think nonprofits should take a page from the business’s books and leave themselves flexibility. So it doesn’t be temp labor, but it has to be labor that you are not locked into for, you know, multiple months or multiple years.
16:20.76
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And not just labor, by the way, like, you know, if you’re running a food bank, you shouldn’t ah sign You you know shouldn’t sign a fixed price, fixed volume contract that commits you for 10 years and you’re you know done you’re forced to be buying potato chips 10 years from now.
16:35.48
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Even if you’ve gone out of business, that would be a that would be a bad ah contract to enter into.
16:35.58
Stephen halasnik
Yeah.
16:41.69
Stephen halasnik
Yeah.
16:41.69
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Same as food labor.
16:41.89
Stephen halasnik
the The problem you have is um what I’ve often seen is in the nonprofit sector, a lot of times the people working for the nonprofit, the executive director and the board have a little bit more of a, um,
17:05.62
Stephen halasnik
emotional commitment to the people working there then because a lot of times those people really are often accepting a lower pay range a lower pay because they believe in the cause and And therefore, the loyalty that the leaders of the nonprofit have toward those people is stronger than it is in a for-profit sector.
17:36.54
Stephen halasnik
And listen, it’s it’s never easy to lay people off. I don’t care if you’re in a for-profit or nonprofit. um I just see and I’d like to hear your comment about the idea that nonprofits are less likely to want to or be willing to let people go when their organization isn’t doing so well.
17:59.35
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
So I think that’s, there’s some truth to that, but look, you know, I’ve been a CEO and CFO in in private sector companies, and it’s never easy to let somebody go. I think it’s, you know, there’s very few people who are heartless enough to let some, you know, to do a layoff and not care.
18:16.09
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
There are some people like that. I’m not one of them. And I don’t think of the people I’ve encountered in my career, like most employers feel some level of loyalty to their employees. Number one. So I don’t want to you know, paint everyone in the private sector as heartless because I think most people aren’t.
18:29.30
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um In the nonprofit sector, when you are an executive director or board of directors, remember, you have kind of three core constituents.
18:29.46
Stephen halasnik
Yeah.
18:36.57
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Number one, you have the mission, right? Whatever you’re you’re committed to, whether that be preserving art, whether that be feeding children. um saving Saving lives overseas, whatever that is. um Number two, you have an obligation to your donors, right? You have committed, said they they are giving you their money, their time in exchange for you holding to that mission.
18:59.22
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And number three, you have the organization itself, the staff. And yes, while you’re committed to your employees or to the folks who are contributing their time and effort, you still have those obligations to those other two constituents. And I think that’s a fiduciary obligation, right? That you as an executive director or you as a board are sworn to uphold.
19:20.31
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
So it’s okay to be loyal, but you you have to balance that with the other needs of the organization. In fact, you’re legally obligated to do so. And if you find it difficult to make that kind of balancing act can you prioritize any one of those groups over at the other two, you’re probably not doing a great job at being an ED or a board member, right? That’s that’s why these boards and executive directors exist because they have the tough job of balancing constituencies.
19:48.79
Stephen halasnik
Yeah, you’re you know you’re right. i completely It’s easy to forget that the donors are giving you the money and you need to be responsible um for making sure that that money is being used wisely.
20:01.43
Stephen halasnik
you know You kind of forget about that. You think about the cause that you’re serving your employees, but you don’t at least I would have forgotten um the the ah my ah role in making sure that um we were being physically responsible to those donors as well. So that’s a great comment.
20:24.63
Stephen halasnik
So if let me ask you this. if if lee yeah Let’s say you get a new client, executive you’re talking to the exec director, and the executive director asks you this question.
20:35.64
Stephen halasnik
um He or she says to you, um ah Nick, ah give me, from your experience, give me three things that would help our organization make sure that we are watching our expenses and finances better.
20:58.26
Stephen halasnik
What would those three things be?
21:02.20
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Number one, record your data properly. right If there’s not a data on what you spent money on, then there’s it’s really difficult for anybody else to go figure out you know whether things went right or went poorly, whether that be board director, whether that be auditor, whatever. like Just record that data.
21:19.45
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um Number two, leverage free technology or discounted technology wherever possible. not you know most companies in Most companies will offer discounted services to nonprofits. right you know Examples like like, I’ll use Slack as an example, the chat app. right they I believe they offer a significantly discounted or free version of their software for nonprofits.
21:44.06
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And a lot of nonprofits instead just go sign up and when they could shoot off an email and save a few hundred or few thousand dollars a year. The same is true with like a lot of email organizations and stuff. So you can send out all your email flyers for free or at a fraction of the price that for-profit institutions pay. so that’s number two, you know, leverage the nonprofit status to try and get significant discounts. And by significant, I don’t mean 10 or 15, but like 90 or 99% discount that a lot of private sector organizations, particularly in technology, give out to nonprofits. Um,
22:16.66
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And number three, hire someone with private sector experience who hire or have someone on your board with private sector experience who understands how to manage costs. Right. I think and you kind of alluded to a lot of people in the nonprofit sector are very mission oriented, and that’s good because you want people who are aligned with your mission and care about what that organization stands for. But in the actual running of your nonprofit, you should have someone Who’s managed P&L, who understands costs, who understands like opportunities to drive efficiencies, because that will help your organization run leaner, more disciplined and achieve its mission better.
22:51.35
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Whether that be a person, be a member of your staff, be a member of your executive team or on the board, someone who just has that skill set.
22:58.39
Stephen halasnik
when When you’re acting as, let’s say, a CFO, part-time CFO for a nonprofit, and as you start to go ah work with them closer, I’m sure first thing is making sure things are being recorded correctly in the either accounting software or even an Excel spreadsheet or whatever. um What is typically…
23:21.02
Stephen halasnik
How does the engagement progress? How, what is the advice that you’re typically giving people? I don’t mean specifically, but where does it, where does it usually gravitate toward?
23:33.66
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
I think, look, it’s a delicate balance when you’re providing financial advice versus mission-oriented advice. As a financial officer, fractional internal consultant, or you know an advisor, your my job or our job is to you know ah give advice on what is most most financially prudent. And sometimes, you know hope most of the time it should align with mission, so but sometimes it contradicts mission.
23:59.93
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um And I think that’s important to handle delicately, not only from a political perspective and like kindness perspective, but also because there are conflicting incentives. As a financial officer or financial advisor, you’re supposed to say, like this is the right thing to do from a math or finance perspective. um And you have to frame that advice in a way that it does not conflict with the mission unless absolutely unless there’s an absolutely like black and white line to be drawn.
24:28.79
Stephen halasnik
Yeah, i I would think though, to be honest with you, is that you, to have somebody in the room who’s a naysayer, and that’s not the right word, someone who it is willing to tell me the um a different story is really what I’m paying you for.
24:52.34
Stephen halasnik
Right? I mean,
24:53.05
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
I mean, that’s nice to think, but that’s not often true, right? Like most organizations, both private and sector and public sector, you know, people are paid to be yes men or yes women, right?
25:02.07
Stephen halasnik
Yeah.
25:02.11
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Or at least it feels better when they are engaged.
25:03.42
Stephen halasnik
But you don’t work for the organization and being outside. Well, no, I guess i can see that either way there.
25:09.08
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Look, no one wants to be the naysayer, right?
25:10.74
Stephen halasnik
Yeah.
25:10.93
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
And no one likes having a naysayer in the room.
25:11.18
Stephen halasnik
Yeah.
25:13.09
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
You don’t want the you know the the negative person in your group of friends. Well-run organizations encourage that, but it’s often really difficult to be that outsider, even if you’re a member of the organization, even if you’re full-time, you know it could be CEO, could be the accountant, could be the marketer, right?
25:28.39
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
If you’re a marketer who has a different approach to marketing than than the organization’s been doing, yeah you’re you’re gonna feel a little bit like an outsider. Right. um Well-run organizations encourage dissent, but it is difficult for most organizations to be comfortable enough in their own skin where they accept dissent.
25:48.28
Stephen halasnik
Yeah. did you Have you found that um that the nonprofits got caught off guard in 2025 in regards to um future revenues?
26:03.06
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Honestly, I don’t have enough evidence to have a perspective on that. So let’ so I’ll pass on that question. I apologize.
26:08.66
Stephen halasnik
Yeah. And and any guests… I don’t know if if it’s the if your answer is that, which is fine. Do you still have not enough evidence to say, do you think that the clients you’re working with in 2026 are being more conservative now?
26:25.69
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Yeah, I think for 2026, nonprofits are being a little bit more conservative because there is just a tremendous amount of uncertainty in the world.
26:30.04
Stephen halasnik
Yeah. I mean, it kind of… Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, this always happens when there’s a recession, when there is something major going on, that it takes people a while, and I include myself in this, of course, it takes us all a while. We’re like deer in headlights in the beginning.
26:49.82
Stephen halasnik
And then you kind of come back to, oh, this is the new reality. And it takes you a little bit of time to kind of grapple with that. And then after that comes an action plan. Then you’re like ready for action. You’re like, okay, this is the new world. And now we have to do this, this, and this. Is that, you know, would you add to anything like that?
27:11.29
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
No, I think you characterized it exactly. there is a you know There’s a delay between an impetus and the that its it stimulates.
27:20.63
Stephen halasnik
have Have the nonprofits that have brought you on today been different in what they wanted than the ones that were coming on, let’s say a year or two ago?
27:32.25
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Sure. So look, our firm is you know reasonably new. We’ve only been around a couple of months, so we we weren’t acquiring clients a year ago.
27:36.42
Stephen halasnik
I don’t know.
27:38.73
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
But I would say this, right?
27:39.10
Stephen halasnik
Oh.
27:40.25
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
The clients that do bring us on tend to be quite different from the typical nonprofit in that they want, you know, we are not an accounting firm. We are a strategic advisory or analysis firm.
27:50.32
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
So our clients tend to be either already be or want to be more sophisticated in thinking kind of towards the future. than just then been asking for kind of accounting services. So we’d like to think that our clients are either already smarter or want to be, so or have a progressive desire to be smarter about how they manage their their operations.
28:12.98
Stephen halasnik
If they want you to do the accounting work, do do you do that or do you kind of find somebody else to do it?
28:18.17
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
We typically will either recommend them to someone or manage someone for them. we are you know Doing it ourselves would not be cost effective and it would be ah you know it would be not in our fiduciary, out or not even fiduciary, it wouldn’t be ethical for us to like charge our kind of rates to do accounting work that they could get at one-tenth the cost.
28:36.44
Stephen halasnik
Yeah. Yeah. um So we have a couple of minutes left ah based on this topic that we’re kind of talking about today, which which has to do with you know how nonprofits can manage their finances better.
28:48.95
Stephen halasnik
What are some of the things that you really kind of, when you thought about coming on today, that you kind of wanted to make sure that everybody understood?
28:56.92
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Um, I think Three things. Number one is that there’s, you know, technology is amazing and I think it is dramatically underpenetrated in smaller nonprofits or even some larger nonprofits that, you know, there’s ah so much free or dirt cheap technology out there so and software out there that like nonprofits should be using it.
29:19.38
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um ah You know, Google free software for whatever, AskChat, CheapT, there’s lots of stuff out there that people should be using. Number two think, i think People, and in nonpro or especially in the nonprofit world, they think of kind of finances as just managing the expenses side of things rather than thinking about, hey, it’s actually important, in fact, our legal obligation to do our accounting right.
29:31.99
Stephen halasnik
you
29:41.63
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Or if we want to achieve our mission, we need to be doing analysis for the future. So stop thinking of finance as an expense management function and think about it both in the compliance recording aspect as well as thinking about in the future.
29:54.63
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
um And whether you do that again in house with, you know, a member of the executive team, someone on the, uh, uh, the board or hire an external firm like ours, like those are all acceptable options, depending on where your organization is.
30:02.62
Stephen halasnik
Thank
30:08.84
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Um, and then third, like. measure things and not just financial things, but measure the operations of your ambition. Like how many people did you help or how many objects did you save or whatever your mission is, measure it.
30:23.41
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Measurement is critical, not just in a finance function, but in an operational function, have your KPIs, go quantify it and ask yourself, Hey, did we do better than we did yesterday? Because that’s what every organization should aspire to do.
30:35.77
Stephen halasnik
Yeah, yeah. oh i like I like those three things. I think they really hit the nail on the head. um So that’s kind of all the time we have for today. I’d like to thank so very much Nick Jain from Eagle Rock CFO for coming on today’s podcast. And if you like today’s podcast, please feel free to share it with friend and also subscribe on your favorite podcasting app.
30:56.44
Stephen halasnik
And if you want to learn a little bit more about a line of credit for your organization, please feel free to visit our website at nonprofitmbapodcast.com. And Nick, if anyone wants get a hold you, how would they go about doing that?
31:09.50
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Sure. Our website is egorockcfo.com. No funny letters or dashes or anything like that. um On there, you have the contact information for both me, my business partner, Dan, our emails, our LinkedIn’s are all on there. egorockcfo.com. We also provide, i was remiss to mention, we also provide just a bunch of free software for anyone, profits, nonprofits, no strings attached to whatsoever.
31:34.58
Stephen halasnik
Great. Thanks for coming on today.
31:36.76
Nick (EagleRockCFO)
Thank you for having me.
31:38.23
Stephen halasnik
So ah I just want to remind everybody, I mean, we’re into now that the recording of this is February 17th of 2026 and um everybody is in their second months of their new year’s resolutions.
31:52.44
Stephen halasnik
And I just want to remind um everybody listening that um first I know Nick and I want to thank you all for trying to make the world a better place. I know both Nick and I are doing it in my, in our own ways, but you guys are out there in the front line. every single day and we really need you. The world’s got some problems and we really need to help from you.
32:13.08
Stephen halasnik
um But don’t forget that at the end of the day, you need to really make sure that you’re taking good care of yourself because you’re no good to your cause, your employees, your family, your your friends, um if you’re burnt out.
32:26.04
Stephen halasnik
And we all know that that happens a lot in this industry. So make sure you’re doing the things that helps you be um healthy and and have the energy that allows you to do this for a long time. um Whether that be exercising or meeting up with a friend for coffee or or meditating or praying, whatever it is that works for you. You need to think about yourself first every morning and then you can help everybody else around you. So please keep that in mind as you’re you know looking at your New Year’s resolutions. And I hope that we’re all keeping, which is always tough.
33:01.72
Stephen halasnik
Other than that, I want to thank you for listening to the Nonprofit MBA Podcast. And have a fantastic day, everybody.
